Such a well written article. More Catholics need to understand the situation in the Church. You have rightly said reconciliation is needed and true Christian charity is the way. People have been throwing around the word unity, but charity, a sincere truthful charity is the way forward, to solve this crisis. May God help us. It’s becoming unbearable to watch the hypocrisy from Rome.
Thank you for the article, James! I think that the doctrinal issues with the Society are more of an element here. The errors of the Society prevent them from being in full communion with the Church, and it is impossible for them to reconcile with the Church without rejecting their rejection of the faith, e.g. their rejection of papal supremacy in matters of discipline, their rejection of religious liberty. Moreover, since the Church is "the Sacrament of Salvation," the life in Christ is communicated through the Church as a community, not just through some set of propositions which are only defined when some group like the SSPX starts to prey on the faithful. So, it follows that communion with the universal Church is the path to salvation and happiness. To claim that one's own efforts, whether intellectual, juridical, or liturgical, can achieve salvation over and against the graced life of God in the Church, is stupid, prideful, and sacrilegious.
It doesn't matter how many young people like to attend your mass, if your mass is leading them away from Christ. Young people are not notorious for their discerning spiritual judgement anyhow.
TLDR: The curse of Almighty God will not be far away from those who set themselves up in prideful disobedience against the Holy See of Rome.
It is obvious that there is a doctrinal difference, but part of it is, as Cardinal Fernandez said in his meeting with Fr. Pagliarani, that the Church itself isn't clear on what the minimal conditions for full communion are, nor what it means to accept Vatican II. It seems to me that we aren't even clear on what the doctrinal differences are. Even though there is necessarily a divide, it's a blurry one.
Regardless of how it shakes out, and it would be better if there isn't a full break, these are questions that the Church does need to determine something on in the long term, as Darrick Taylor and Kevin Tierney also admit in their pieces:
That's a fair response, James. I am very interested to see a better systemization of the Council's teachings. It is true that more theological work is needed, and I believe it will come at least in large part because of the SSPX's actions. However, doctrinal clarifications seem to only come about when a certain aspect of the faith is attacked, as is happening now. However, I tend to think that a lot of the confusion in the Church is largely generated by the critics who approach the magisterium as if it were an enemy philosophical system to be attacked, rather than authoritative teaching to be understood and loved.
I would of course love to see the SSPX reconciled to the Church, but I think that the divide will widen precisely because Rome retains the true faith while the SSPX reject it. Any reconciliation would entail that the SSPX submit to the authority of what they perceive as a heretical Rome, so I am not optimistic for them. However, I think that the theological battle that follows will serve the Church well.
The Society of Saint Pius X does not see its actions as game theory, negotiation tactics, or the creation of a parallel Church — nor as a formal split from Rome, as some assume. From its perspective, the decisive rupture occurred in 1988 amid doctrinal confusion and the excesses of post-conciliar ecumenism, particularly the World Day of Prayer for Peace convened under Pope John Paul II. The Society views these events as symptomatic of a deeper crisis affecting the Church’s mission and fidelity to the First Commandment.
They argue that the crisis has since intensified — citing episcopal appointments they consider doctrinally unsound and the Vatican’s accommodation with the Chinese state in bishop nominations as further contradictions.
The 1988 consecrations, they maintain, were not intended to establish an alternative hierarchy, but to ensure the continuation of priestly ordinations so the Society would not disappear.
As Marcel Lefebvre stated, if Rome were to reaffirm fully the perennial Tradition of the Church, those bishops would place their episcopal dignity in the hands of the Pope and say: “Here we are. If you wish, we will live as simple priests.”
For a fuller understanding of his intentions and reasoning, see the biography by Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Marcel Lefebvre: The Biography.
The SSPX consecrations may not be schismatic but these actions hardly work towards unity in the Church. In fact I suggest this is part of the US Doctrinal Warfare program founded in 1953 on the feast if St Peter and St Paul and indirectly targetting theCatholic Church. It was specifically designed to create schism and division in "Totalitarian thought patterns". Thr Coetus Patrum, all of whom had masonic epsicopal lineages did not block the liberal heresies being pushed at VII but allowed the documents to be written in such a way as to allow for a liberal AND a conservative interpretation leaving the post VII Church more divided. Then the Rockefellar Organisation funded Los Tecos who were a Mexican Catholic Right Wing secret organisation whose spiritual director Father Sáenz y Arriaga published the first Sedevacantist Thesis. From then Lefebvre dencounced the Council and Thuc after visiting Econe recast himself as a Traditionalist and began consecrating Bishops without jurisdiction. Lefebvre imitated this in 1988.
Neither Arriaga, Lefebvre nor Thuc acted in a Catholic manner which would have been to suffer meekly trustint in God' providence.
Would anyone here want to hear from a former SSPX soul, who left this heretical group to become a true Catholic with MLR in NM, USA? (Hint: he lives in Argentina.)
I would like to reply to the gentleman who liked the comment I made earlier by posting the RJMI audios books and videos he told me he liked the ones I posted by RJMI against the SSPX I seem to have lost his information in order to respond to him so please get this message to him " for your only hope of salvation please visit John the Baptist.us in quote repent of your past sins convert to true Catholicism live a holy in perfect life live and die in the state of grace once you become a member of the true Catholic Church MLR has a chat site for inquiries if anyone here is interested please let me know or search for it online in the search bar menu of John the Baptist.us on a search engine thank you
"No popes or cardinals since 1130"? Sure. How about what can be intelligently discerned: the 1958 overthrow by means of threat of a rightly elected pope, & two days later this Freemason gets invalidly elected: novusordowatch.org/john-xxiii (the links with "1958" deal with the vitiated 1958 conclave).
your post please read the RJMI article about non-catholics cannot hold offices in the Catholic Church it should be easy to find online I don't have the link at the moment for you you only hope a salvation please go to John the Baptist.us
I did go there & have before. It says no valid popes since 1130 & condemns Fathers & Doctors of the Church & many saints. It is ridiculous. One can fall into the ditch on the right side of a road just like the left.
challenge I would like to challenge you on your statement about why MLR Mary's Little remnant in New Mexico why we condemn certain anti-Saints if you have one ounce of Goodwill you will take up this challenge your church calls a heretic a saint for example mother Teresa it can be shown where she was a virulent heretic promoting NFP heresy saying she didn't know if she believed in God or not telling apostate sick people if you are a Muslim be a good Muslim she should have told them there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church if you want to hope to save your soul become a true Catholic live a holy life live and die in the state of grace this is just one example of the anti-popes canizations please see the reputation menu at John the Baptist.us pick any of the so-called saints listed there and read the truth about the lies and heresies of their life thank you
I agree that Mother Teresa was not Catholic in her beliefs & actions. The V2 church is a false church but Pius XII was a true pope. His legitimate successor was threatened into invalid abdication, leading to the false V2 religion under false popes & the Great Apostasy, as whitesmoke1958.com explains.
you may be referring to the thesis about Cardinal siri. please read the RJMI reputation of this topic I don't know if you read an earlier post I think it was sent to you I'm not sure but this discussion cannot continue if you regard Pius the 12th a true pope as you claim here please tell me what I was in error about I told you about 5 off the top of my head heresies he held you did not address any of them in true Catholic theology if you refuse to answer a question like this when you are obliged to you become totally guilty of the same crime of heresy if you can't locate those five heresies I will repeat them any one of them would excommunicate a true pope but he was never Pope to be a pope a man must be a Catholic he must be a man he must be validly elected and so forth The string of Popes true popes ended in 11:30 he will be very sad spiritually if you do not follow up on this admonition here given about Eugenio pocelli aka anti-Pope Pius the 12th if after this you continue to claim he is a pope after showing you at least five heresies he held then you are not of good will and I would be casting pearls to swine and committing sin to continue this conversation longer you must refute those five heresies if you can but you cannot
it is true and can be proven that all the climates to the papacy since 11:30 have been heretics and apostates I will give you just a few examples for your researching next true Catholics only condemn anti-church fathers see the reputations menu at John the Baptist.us you will not believe things that have been hidden about some of the anti-church fathers like Jerome and John chrysassin third you were right about falling into the ditch on the right or the left That's correct I don't have the scripture but there are one or more holy scriptures about this topic you are correct about that MLR condemns both stoicism and epicureanism now back to the earlier point I wrote about the many heresies of bocelli pachelli antipope Pius the 12th I think I sent that to you earlier or at least I posted it here on substack please watch the RJMI video where he condemns correctly condemns Leo the 13th as an antipope for his calling and his blessing of the world parliament of religions blasphemous assembly in 1893 he wrote a heretical encyclical praising the demonic founders of this harlot country USA lastly for now please study how the apostate antipope Eugenia the 4th in 144 5 it took him 12 years to build it he ordered constructed laid out the plans paid for and cut the ribbon ceremony for the blasphemous doors to the Vatican call the phileata doors f i l i a r t e doors who was the architect's name on the radical Vatican website it talks about these doors and it took 12 years to make them The RJMI video explains all of this in his two videos on the desecration of St Peter's and the desecration of churches many churches were filled with demonic are called demon pictures gargoyles grotesque figures pornographic images total naked art total naked statues and no antipope has ever condemned these mortal sins that makes him heretics thank you for listening
Such a well written article. More Catholics need to understand the situation in the Church. You have rightly said reconciliation is needed and true Christian charity is the way. People have been throwing around the word unity, but charity, a sincere truthful charity is the way forward, to solve this crisis. May God help us. It’s becoming unbearable to watch the hypocrisy from Rome.
Thank you for the article, James! I think that the doctrinal issues with the Society are more of an element here. The errors of the Society prevent them from being in full communion with the Church, and it is impossible for them to reconcile with the Church without rejecting their rejection of the faith, e.g. their rejection of papal supremacy in matters of discipline, their rejection of religious liberty. Moreover, since the Church is "the Sacrament of Salvation," the life in Christ is communicated through the Church as a community, not just through some set of propositions which are only defined when some group like the SSPX starts to prey on the faithful. So, it follows that communion with the universal Church is the path to salvation and happiness. To claim that one's own efforts, whether intellectual, juridical, or liturgical, can achieve salvation over and against the graced life of God in the Church, is stupid, prideful, and sacrilegious.
It doesn't matter how many young people like to attend your mass, if your mass is leading them away from Christ. Young people are not notorious for their discerning spiritual judgement anyhow.
TLDR: The curse of Almighty God will not be far away from those who set themselves up in prideful disobedience against the Holy See of Rome.
It is obvious that there is a doctrinal difference, but part of it is, as Cardinal Fernandez said in his meeting with Fr. Pagliarani, that the Church itself isn't clear on what the minimal conditions for full communion are, nor what it means to accept Vatican II. It seems to me that we aren't even clear on what the doctrinal differences are. Even though there is necessarily a divide, it's a blurry one.
Regardless of how it shakes out, and it would be better if there isn't a full break, these are questions that the Church does need to determine something on in the long term, as Darrick Taylor and Kevin Tierney also admit in their pieces:
https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/the-sspx-is-not-the-problem
https://kmtierney.substack.com/p/what-does-it-mean-to-accept-vatican
That's a fair response, James. I am very interested to see a better systemization of the Council's teachings. It is true that more theological work is needed, and I believe it will come at least in large part because of the SSPX's actions. However, doctrinal clarifications seem to only come about when a certain aspect of the faith is attacked, as is happening now. However, I tend to think that a lot of the confusion in the Church is largely generated by the critics who approach the magisterium as if it were an enemy philosophical system to be attacked, rather than authoritative teaching to be understood and loved.
I would of course love to see the SSPX reconciled to the Church, but I think that the divide will widen precisely because Rome retains the true faith while the SSPX reject it. Any reconciliation would entail that the SSPX submit to the authority of what they perceive as a heretical Rome, so I am not optimistic for them. However, I think that the theological battle that follows will serve the Church well.
I hasten to add that I'm not equating your position with the SSPX. I don't want my hotheaded comments to seem like I'm attacking you.
I think this is the first article I've read that I can agree on. Thank you.
The Society of Saint Pius X does not see its actions as game theory, negotiation tactics, or the creation of a parallel Church — nor as a formal split from Rome, as some assume. From its perspective, the decisive rupture occurred in 1988 amid doctrinal confusion and the excesses of post-conciliar ecumenism, particularly the World Day of Prayer for Peace convened under Pope John Paul II. The Society views these events as symptomatic of a deeper crisis affecting the Church’s mission and fidelity to the First Commandment.
They argue that the crisis has since intensified — citing episcopal appointments they consider doctrinally unsound and the Vatican’s accommodation with the Chinese state in bishop nominations as further contradictions.
The 1988 consecrations, they maintain, were not intended to establish an alternative hierarchy, but to ensure the continuation of priestly ordinations so the Society would not disappear.
As Marcel Lefebvre stated, if Rome were to reaffirm fully the perennial Tradition of the Church, those bishops would place their episcopal dignity in the hands of the Pope and say: “Here we are. If you wish, we will live as simple priests.”
For a fuller understanding of his intentions and reasoning, see the biography by Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Marcel Lefebvre: The Biography.
The SSPX consecrations may not be schismatic but these actions hardly work towards unity in the Church. In fact I suggest this is part of the US Doctrinal Warfare program founded in 1953 on the feast if St Peter and St Paul and indirectly targetting theCatholic Church. It was specifically designed to create schism and division in "Totalitarian thought patterns". Thr Coetus Patrum, all of whom had masonic epsicopal lineages did not block the liberal heresies being pushed at VII but allowed the documents to be written in such a way as to allow for a liberal AND a conservative interpretation leaving the post VII Church more divided. Then the Rockefellar Organisation funded Los Tecos who were a Mexican Catholic Right Wing secret organisation whose spiritual director Father Sáenz y Arriaga published the first Sedevacantist Thesis. From then Lefebvre dencounced the Council and Thuc after visiting Econe recast himself as a Traditionalist and began consecrating Bishops without jurisdiction. Lefebvre imitated this in 1988.
Neither Arriaga, Lefebvre nor Thuc acted in a Catholic manner which would have been to suffer meekly trustint in God' providence.
https://open.substack.com/pub/archbishoplefebvrewasafreemason/p/the-us-doctrinal-warefare-program
Archbishop Vigano has an interesting take on the SSPX-Rome situation:
kokxnews.substack.com/p/vigano-warns-sspx-deal-with-rome
Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX)
Apostate SSPX Bows to Vatican II Church and Apostate Jews, by RJMI, video/audio, Vlr21/Alr9
Brief against the SSPX, by RJMI, refutation, Rr28
My Trip, the CMRI, and the SSPX, by RJMI, refutation, Rr20
Supplement to Against the SSPX, by RJMI, refutation, Rr26
Herein are shown, the perfidy of the SSPX: RJMI audios, books and videos as listed above at the only true Catholic site online: JohnTheBaptist.us
Would anyone here want to hear from a former SSPX soul, who left this heretical group to become a true Catholic with MLR in NM, USA? (Hint: he lives in Argentina.)
I would like to reply to the gentleman who liked the comment I made earlier by posting the RJMI audios books and videos he told me he liked the ones I posted by RJMI against the SSPX I seem to have lost his information in order to respond to him so please get this message to him " for your only hope of salvation please visit John the Baptist.us in quote repent of your past sins convert to true Catholicism live a holy in perfect life live and die in the state of grace once you become a member of the true Catholic Church MLR has a chat site for inquiries if anyone here is interested please let me know or search for it online in the search bar menu of John the Baptist.us on a search engine thank you
"No popes or cardinals since 1130"? Sure. How about what can be intelligently discerned: the 1958 overthrow by means of threat of a rightly elected pope, & two days later this Freemason gets invalidly elected: novusordowatch.org/john-xxiii (the links with "1958" deal with the vitiated 1958 conclave).
your post please read the RJMI article about non-catholics cannot hold offices in the Catholic Church it should be easy to find online I don't have the link at the moment for you you only hope a salvation please go to John the Baptist.us
I did go there & have before. It says no valid popes since 1130 & condemns Fathers & Doctors of the Church & many saints. It is ridiculous. One can fall into the ditch on the right side of a road just like the left.
challenge I would like to challenge you on your statement about why MLR Mary's Little remnant in New Mexico why we condemn certain anti-Saints if you have one ounce of Goodwill you will take up this challenge your church calls a heretic a saint for example mother Teresa it can be shown where she was a virulent heretic promoting NFP heresy saying she didn't know if she believed in God or not telling apostate sick people if you are a Muslim be a good Muslim she should have told them there is no salvation outside the true Catholic Church if you want to hope to save your soul become a true Catholic live a holy life live and die in the state of grace this is just one example of the anti-popes canizations please see the reputation menu at John the Baptist.us pick any of the so-called saints listed there and read the truth about the lies and heresies of their life thank you
I agree that Mother Teresa was not Catholic in her beliefs & actions. The V2 church is a false church but Pius XII was a true pope. His legitimate successor was threatened into invalid abdication, leading to the false V2 religion under false popes & the Great Apostasy, as whitesmoke1958.com explains.
you may be referring to the thesis about Cardinal siri. please read the RJMI reputation of this topic I don't know if you read an earlier post I think it was sent to you I'm not sure but this discussion cannot continue if you regard Pius the 12th a true pope as you claim here please tell me what I was in error about I told you about 5 off the top of my head heresies he held you did not address any of them in true Catholic theology if you refuse to answer a question like this when you are obliged to you become totally guilty of the same crime of heresy if you can't locate those five heresies I will repeat them any one of them would excommunicate a true pope but he was never Pope to be a pope a man must be a Catholic he must be a man he must be validly elected and so forth The string of Popes true popes ended in 11:30 he will be very sad spiritually if you do not follow up on this admonition here given about Eugenio pocelli aka anti-Pope Pius the 12th if after this you continue to claim he is a pope after showing you at least five heresies he held then you are not of good will and I would be casting pearls to swine and committing sin to continue this conversation longer you must refute those five heresies if you can but you cannot
it is true and can be proven that all the climates to the papacy since 11:30 have been heretics and apostates I will give you just a few examples for your researching next true Catholics only condemn anti-church fathers see the reputations menu at John the Baptist.us you will not believe things that have been hidden about some of the anti-church fathers like Jerome and John chrysassin third you were right about falling into the ditch on the right or the left That's correct I don't have the scripture but there are one or more holy scriptures about this topic you are correct about that MLR condemns both stoicism and epicureanism now back to the earlier point I wrote about the many heresies of bocelli pachelli antipope Pius the 12th I think I sent that to you earlier or at least I posted it here on substack please watch the RJMI video where he condemns correctly condemns Leo the 13th as an antipope for his calling and his blessing of the world parliament of religions blasphemous assembly in 1893 he wrote a heretical encyclical praising the demonic founders of this harlot country USA lastly for now please study how the apostate antipope Eugenia the 4th in 144 5 it took him 12 years to build it he ordered constructed laid out the plans paid for and cut the ribbon ceremony for the blasphemous doors to the Vatican call the phileata doors f i l i a r t e doors who was the architect's name on the radical Vatican website it talks about these doors and it took 12 years to make them The RJMI video explains all of this in his two videos on the desecration of St Peter's and the desecration of churches many churches were filled with demonic are called demon pictures gargoyles grotesque figures pornographic images total naked art total naked statues and no antipope has ever condemned these mortal sins that makes him heretics thank you for listening